ilane06-off - โ€ขโ˜…๐‰๐Ž๐„๐’๐“๐€๐‘โ˜…โ€ข

ilane06-off

โ€ขโ˜…๐‰๐Ž๐„๐’๐“๐€๐‘โ˜…โ€ข

๐€๐’๐Š ๐€๐๐Ž๐”๐“ ๐’๐€๐ˆ๐‹๐Ž๐‘ ๐Š๐ˆ๐‘๐€//๐—›๐—˜:๐—›๐—œ๐— //๐–ง๐–ค๐– ๐–ฃ๐–ข๐–ญ๐–ฎ๐–ญ:๐–ณ๐–ง๐–ค๐–ฎ๐–ฑ๐–จ๐–ค๐–ฒ::๐–จ๐–ฌ๐– ๐–ฆ๐–จ๐–ญ๐–ค๐–ฒ ๐–ช๐–จ๐–ญ๐–ฆ/๐—ž๐—œ๐—ก๐——๐—” ๐—”๐—™๐—ž/๐ƒ๐Ž ๐๐Ž๐“ ๐‡๐€๐‘๐€๐’๐’ ๐จ๐ฏ๐ž๐ซ ๐Ÿ๐ข๐œ๐ญ๐ข๐จ๐ง.. ๐€๐…๐Š ๐€๐‚๐‚

263 posts

Latest Posts by ilane06-off

ilane06-off
1 week ago

๐Ÿ‘

The Undying Resolve Of A Joestar

the undying resolve of a joestar

ilane06-off
1 month ago
08nov2024

im still dull and dead inside but here - tim. i headcanon him to have a pretty boy babyface, to spite all those who draw him as a macho man. turned out looking more like a fem-version

whatever i dont fucking know what does he have under his hat

08nov2024
08nov2024
ilane06-off
2 months ago
ilane06-off - โ€ขโ˜…๐‰๐Ž๐„๐’๐“๐€๐‘โ˜…โ€ข
ilane06-off
2 months ago
ilane06-off - โ€ขโ˜…๐‰๐Ž๐„๐’๐“๐€๐‘โ˜…โ€ข
ilane06-off
7 months ago

Does anybody else remember the artist Snerufu? I hope sheโ€™s doing okay and is living her best life, wherever she is.

She did not deserve the sheer amount of harassment she got and the severe mental toll it had on her simply for โ€œproblematicallyโ€drawing fictional characters.

Nor will I forgive the people who coordinated those attacks and spread libel about her in massive amounts. The fact that those scum are still active and thriving is sickening.

I wish more could have been done for her.

Wherever you are, Snerufu, I hope youโ€™re doing okay.

ilane06-off
1 year ago

so, why /is/ Joshu good actually and doesn't deserve all the hate he gets?

Because the hate comes mostly from the people who are incapable of empathizing with whatโ€™s honestly a really pitiable person. They only see the negatives and donโ€™t question why he acts like he does. Also, heโ€™s brave AF.

And donโ€™t get me wrong: there ARE negatives. Joshu is by no means a completely misunderstood good person, heโ€™s kind of a scumbag, but so are most JoJo characters. And yet, people apparently just love to hate Joshu specifically.

When I started reading Jojolion, I initially couldnโ€™t help but just feel bad for the guy, because I realized what he struggles with, and how it affects him as a person whoโ€™s honestly just trying his best most of the time.

Hereโ€™s the big thing that I think puts a LOT in perspective:

Joshu is essentially the prime example of the neglected middle child. He has an older brother who is his fatherโ€™s pride and joy, an older sister who is a successful model, and a younger, blind sister who everyone coddles. Norisuke is very loving and playful with his daughters and very chummy with his older son, but Joshu never really gets the same loving treatment.

Instead, Joshu is seen treated sternly and unfairly by his brother and father, who both just seem annoyed by his presence. Itโ€™s very, painfully clear to me that this is something that makes Joshu extremely insecure, as it can be easily observed from his facial expressions. For example, hereโ€™s him when Josuke is given his usual space on family photographs;

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Heโ€™s shown shivering when Norisuke yells at him, and standing next to his father clearly means a lot to him, but his feelings are not taken into account at all.

This clearly causes him a lot of stress, as he is already insecure about his position in the family, and it makes PERFECT SENSE for him to feel threatened by Josuke, who immediately gained his fatherโ€™s love, respect, and support.ย 

image

This kind of behavior towards Joshu is seen again during the beetle battle arc with Jobin, who belittles him several times in a short amount of time, and orders him to cheer for Josuke (threatening him with violence if he wonโ€™t), despite Joshu clearly not liking Josuke for reasons that I really canโ€™t judge him for.

image

And Joshu always obliges.

Mind you - this is not the behavior they have towards Joshu ALL the time, but Joshu is the only Higashikata kid we see getting this kind of treatment.

Joshu, to me, comes across as someone who is absolutely starved for validation from his brother and father, but he never gets it. Instead, heโ€™s constantly pushed around and belittled by them, and treated as an annoyance. A stranger in their home is being given more care and respect than the son.

It just felt really really hard to me to watch what I feel was sadly a fairly realistic depiction of how some children in larger families just donโ€™t get the same amount of love and support as others.

Okay, nowย Iโ€™ll tackle some of the biggest things that people point at when they try to claim that Joshu is a terrible character;

He's a โ€œnice guyโ€ and is possessive over Yasuho who's not interested

He tried to r*pe Yasuho (Iโ€™ll say it right here and now: This is a COMPLETE AND UTTER misrepresentation of the events that transpired)

He assaulted Kaato

When we start Jojolion, Joshu has a mistaken impression that him and Yasuho are a couple. That assumption is not completely groundless on his part, because both him and Yasuho confirm that they DID kiss, so you really canโ€™t blame him for having a certain idea of a relationship.

image

When first seeing Josuke and Yasuho, Joshu gets the wrong idea and believes that Josuke was at the very least being extremely inappropriate to Yasuho, with him being naked and all. He immediately tries to save her by attacking him.

Joshu is indeed very possessive of Yasuho and while thatโ€™s not something that can be excused, we CAN track down to the reason why he acts that way, and that reason once again goes back to him being neglected by his family.

It looks to me like Yasuho remained his friend because she pitied him, as she off-handedly acknowledges how poorly socialized he is;

image

If his father and brother cared to give him a better example and lead him, he would probably be less of a creep. Instead, all he had was his confused feelings, the entitlement that come from being raised in a rich family, and no one to teach him how to properly behave - mind you that he also grew up without a mother.

The reason he clings to Yasuho as much as he does is very likely because she gave him the empathy that he feels like he lacks at home. Sheโ€™s essentially his comfort person.

I think itโ€™s also important to point out that Joshu is not possessive of Yasuho in an objectifying manner - he genuinely cares for her and wants to protect her. That doesnโ€™t excuse some of his actions of course, but I think itโ€™s still fair to acknowledge it.

image

Next, the r*pe accusation, and context is EVERYTHING here.

Hereโ€™s what happened to lead up to the so-called r*pe attempt, and this includes spoilers for the Paper Moon King arc (Vol.6, Chapers 23-25)

Yasuho was attacked by a stand that made everyone look the same to her, and was unable to tell one person from the other. She called Josuke for help, but while waiting for him, she ran into Joshu.

image
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What followed was a whole slew of statements that Joshu TERRIBLY misinterpreted, as his thirsty unsocialized ass tends to do.

One thing leads to another and Joshu takes off his pants - at which point Yasuho realized that heโ€™s not Josuke, at which point she screams Josukeโ€™s name, and Joshu practically freezes in place, the gears in his head probably starting to turn a bit. And then Yasuho knocks him out and thatโ€™s where that ends.

Iโ€™d say that Joshu was definitely over-eager to get into Yasuhoโ€™s pants, but he only did what he thought she wanted, and I believe that if he wasnโ€™t knocked out when he was, he would probably back off once the mistake was acknowledged. Joshu did not want to r*pe Yasuho. That was NEVER his intent.

Joshu is someone whoโ€™s entitled, but heโ€™s not evil.

Last thing I see people point to when shit talking Joshu is his harassment of Kaato, and honestly, I am shocked that people are even remotely able to misinterpret that scene, which does nothing but show how protective Joshu is of his family, and how quick he is to defend them.

The following is a spoiler of Vol.14, Chapter 58.

We see the mother of the Higashikata family return after being imprisoned for 15 years for killing a child. She is a murderer and enters the house uninvited, possibly while everyone else was still sleeping.

This is how Norisuke, the father, reacts:

image

To reiterate:

The father is so startled by the presence of this woman, that he screams and falls on the ground with shock. He then proceeds to yell at her, demanding for her to get out. She doesnโ€™t.

The convicted murderer then proceeds to walk towards Daiya, the youngest daughter, and thatโ€™s when Joshu immediately takes action.

He trips Kaato with a chair and then proceeds to speak to her with a very clear intent to try to make her leave.

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Is what he said inappropriate? Abso-fucking-lutely. But that was the INTENT.

I genuinely donโ€™t understand why people think this is something that proves that Joshu is a terrible person when what heโ€™s doing is honestly really damn brave.

Think back to how Norisuke reacted to Kaato. For what Joshu knew, she couldโ€™ve had an extremely dangerous ability, but he jumped in to stop her from reaching his little sister anyway.

One last thing, and this is a spoiler for some of the most recent chapters of Jojolion; the Endless Calamity arc (Vol.24, chapter 95)

I want to point out one more extremely brave thing Joshu has done; He saved Yasuhoโ€™s life while once again possibly putting his own life in danger.

Hereโ€™s the scene: Joshu and his sisters just watched his older brother possibly murder their father during a heated confrontation and a clash of ideals.

image

During this, Yasuho is currently dying. Her stand is trapped in a cellphone, and not close enough to an electrical socket to escape. Jobin had FULL INTENT to kill her. But then this scene happens;

image

The phone is suddenly by the socket, and Paisley Park got to escape. We never see it being moved, but there is a panel specifically directing our attention to Joshuโ€™s foot.

Someone moved the phone to let Paisley Park escape, and all signs point to that being Joshu.

Again - Joshu, who just watched his brother possibly murder his father, and who had fully attempted murdering his friend. From what Joshu was concerned, nothing would stop Jobin from killing him as well.

Joshu has flaws. Heโ€™s entitled, heโ€™s annoying and heโ€™s creepy. Heโ€™s also very stupid and very naive at times.

But there are also reasons for why he turned out this way, and those reasons are just.. plainly sad. I canโ€™t help but to pity this character and just hope the best for him, because he deserves to feel loved by someone because heโ€™s not a bad person.

Personally, I think Joshu is a really interesting character and I thoroughly enjoyed every most moments featuring him, especially interacting with his family, because their relationships come across very realistic and lovable (minus the times Joshu is unfairly belittled).

Heโ€™s also a really funny character whose ideas, thoughts, and opinions and just a delight to read every time he gets to just act casually.

image

PS - his hairstyle is great and yโ€™all are just mean

ilane06-off
2 years ago
ilane06-off
2 years ago

Do you have any Hisoillu relationship headcanons? If so would you mind telling me what?

Well, I donโ€™t really have relationship headcanons on them because I donโ€™t think too much on a genuine relationship between them cos their current relationship is very volatile. Iโ€™ll just give you my take on how their relationship actually is instead. Something that I do think is that this idea of Hisoka constantly winding Illumi up is inaccurate. I see headcanons and stuff and a lot of it has to do with Hisoka being an annoying pest towards Illumi, and Illumi seeing him as an annoying pest. This idea would have of course been taken from the scene where Hisoka jokes about harming Killua and pissing off Illumi. This is idea is alright as a joke but itโ€™s kinda become like a Hisoillu stereotype now. In canon, Hisoka only annoys Illumi once, emphasis on once. Throughout all the other times we see them together, we see them working as a team and mostly Illumi helping Hisoka which brings me on to my second point.

It is clear that Illumi likes Hisoka more than Hisoka likes Illumi, and Illumi does not see him as an annoying pest at all. Illumi helps Hisoka throughout the hunter exam when he didnโ€™t have to. They did stick together but Illumi was a lot more helpful towards Hisoka such as contacting him during the first stage telling him to hurry up as they are almost ready to move on to the next phase. He also offered to tell Hisoka who his target was during the fourth stage which he did not have to do at all and killing that guy with his pins before the guy could charge at Hisoka. In the interviews at the beginning of the fifth stage, Illumi says that the person he least wants to fight is Hisoka, this could be because he does not want to fight his ally (or friend even though Illumi wouldnโ€™t use that word, Hisoka calls Illumi his friend though) or because one of them would have to lose in that fight and Illumi does not want decrease either of their chances at passing, or both of those things.

Now, all Hisoka did during the exam was just stick by Illumi and maintain contact with him, he didnโ€™t really help Illumi at all like he helped Hisoka. He was just off doing his own thing while Illumi kinda kept interrupting with his helpfulness. At the end of the exam, Illumi spoke with Hisoka and agreed not to kill Gon because Hisoka wants him alive and then he asked him what his plans are. Thatโ€™s something that a friend would do, Hisoka didnโ€™t ask Illumi what his plans were, thatโ€™s another thing Illumi didnโ€™t have to do. Illumi didnโ€™t have to do any of this for Hisoka, helping Hisoka doesnโ€™t directly benefit him, all this time he is just being a good ally/friend.

In the Yorknew City arc, Illumi also took the time out of his day to disguise himself as Hisoka and be his decoy while Hisoka goes to fight Chrollo. Paid or not, he did not have to do that favour for him at all. Illumi even said โ€œiโ€™ve known you a little longer than Chrolloโ€ so he chooses Hisoka over Chrollo. Now, in the Chairman arc we see Hisoka mentally rating the power of the hunters around him and then he gets suddenly senses someone whose power he rates as 95 points, and then he turns with a disappointed look on his face upon seeing itโ€™s actually Illumi who asks โ€œdo you have some time?โ€ which Hisoka responds โ€œoh, itโ€™s you, Illumi. How about you?โ€ Hisoka helps Illumi with his situation with Alluka because thereโ€™s a chance of Gon dying and Hisoka himself dying, so he helps because it benefits himself. As mentioned before, he even fucks up Illumiโ€™s plan by triggering Illumiโ€™s bloodlust and having Killua discover their location, he also did that for his own benefit. At one point, Hisoka even considered killing Killua to make Illumi angry and make him become Hisokaโ€™s enemy. Thatโ€™s not something a good friend/ally does and Iโ€™m pretty sure Illumi would not even think about fucking over Hisoka like that.

So really, a lot of their relationship is those two maintaining contact, and Illumi helping Hisoka, and Hisoka doing his own thing even when theyโ€™re working as a team. Hisoka is mainly on the receiving end of the help while Illumi just gives. Sure, Illumi received some help from Hisoka for the Alluka situation but Hisoka was in it for himself and not for Illumiโ€™s sake.

To sum it all up, my idea on their relationship is mainly Illumi giving, and Hisoka taking. Hisoka does not constantly wind Illumi up nor does Illumi see him as an annoying pest who he canโ€™t wait to get away from. Illumi likes Hisoka a lot more than Hisoka likes Illumi, and it shows throughout canon.

ilane06-off
2 years ago
PROSCIUTTO X BUCCIARATTI 100000000% WOO HA BARK BARK
PROSCIUTTO X BUCCIARATTI 100000000% WOO HA BARK BARK
PROSCIUTTO X BUCCIARATTI 100000000% WOO HA BARK BARK
PROSCIUTTO X BUCCIARATTI 100000000% WOO HA BARK BARK
PROSCIUTTO X BUCCIARATTI 100000000% WOO HA BARK BARK
PROSCIUTTO X BUCCIARATTI 100000000% WOO HA BARK BARK
PROSCIUTTO X BUCCIARATTI 100000000% WOO HA BARK BARK
PROSCIUTTO X BUCCIARATTI 100000000% WOO HA BARK BARK

PROSCIUTTO x BUCCIARATTI 100000000% WOO HA BARK BARK

what a good rival ship and what an incedible arc, The Garetful Dead + Beach Boy fights are one of my fave jojo arcs, unparalleledย ย 

And a little Cheer!AU on the side - theyโ€™re rival teams and Bruno is the preppy straight-edge this-is-serious-business-but-letโ€™s-have-fun kind of team while La Squadra is a โ€˜The Most Popular Girls in Schoolโ€™ kind of team lol

love me a petty as shit rivalryย 

ilane06-off
2 years ago

Canon๐ŸŒนโœจ๏ธ

Canon๐ŸŒนโœจ๏ธ
ilane06-off
2 years ago

"but fictional minors still can't consent"

no fictional character can consent. adults and minors alike. because they are fictional. the point is that they don't have to consent. try asking a written piece or drawn lineart for consent โ€” you're going to sound insane.

i think fandom needs to be reminded once again that fictional characters are not people. they are pieces of our imagination. ideas developed from our own experiences or inspired by other works. they are sketches on paper. words on a screen. they are fake concepts that don't exist. they don't have rights. they can't consent nor need to, because they're not real.

real, living, breathing people and creatures are the only thing that need to consent. nothing else can, nor has to. fictional characters are objects. do you think objects need to consent?

imagine if you had to ask your sex toys permission first before using them, or your kinky outfits or accessories for consent before wearing them.

objects do not need to consent, because they are not real.

consent matters because it can be traumatic or damaging otherwise.

objects do not have trauma. they can't react negatively because they don't have emotions.

ilane06-off
2 years ago

I hate you shipping discourse I hate you unnecessarily aggressive DNI banners I hate you dehumanization of those you disagree with I hate you harassment over ships or favorite characters I hate you purposeful lack of nuance I hate you false equivalencies I hate you policing how people engage in fandom I hate you actively trying to make fandom spaces hostile I hate you refusal to filter your feed I hate you making it everyone elseโ€™s problem

ilane06-off
2 years ago

My honest reaction:

My Honest Reaction:

The story of how Zepile lost his first game of pool EVER โœจ

The Story Of How Zepile Lost His First Game Of Pool EVER โœจ
ilane06-off
2 years ago

I love this zjahahahd

Does That Mean Weโ€™re Married Now?

Does that mean weโ€™re married now?

BruRis longing is strong todayโ€ฆ

ilane06-off
2 years ago
Hair Color Swap โšซ๐ŸŸก

Hair color swap โšซ๐ŸŸก

ilane06-off
2 years ago

Jolyne x Anasui is like the Jojo vers of HisoMachi... This is why I don't ship it lmao

My Favorite Pink Pepol

My favorite pink pepol


Tags
ilane06-off
2 years ago
Thanks For The Idea Lmao @pinktatertots99

Thanks for the idea lmao @pinktatertots99

ilane06-off
2 years ago
SO I GOT A NEW OTP Yep. Itโ€™s Steely Dan And Jotaro. Iโ€™m Not Sure How It Happened But It Did. Also

SO I GOT A NEW OTP Yep. Itโ€™s Steely Dan and Jotaro. Iโ€™m not sure how it happened but it did. Also this took way too long. Way. Too. Long. BUT LOOK AT MY BEAUTIFUL BOY. HEโ€™S A WIFE IN DISGUISE. Also used a limited color palette which was fun.

ilane06-off
2 years ago
Nightmare
Nightmare
Nightmare
Nightmare
Nightmare
Nightmare

nightmare

ilane06-off
2 years ago

Diego Brando is Autistic: a Masterpost

Diego is autistic and nobody will ever convince me otherwise.

Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost
Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost

His special interest/hyperfixation is horses and heโ€™s very good at noticing small details about them.

Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost

Has no idea how to sit down normally.

Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost
Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost

Knows everyoneโ€™s weight and can distinguish horses by their hoof prints.

Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost

Wears a sweater in the desert (sensory issues).

Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost
Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost

Canโ€™t recognize Johnny by sight, but knows him by name.

Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost
Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost

Has no idea how to make friends and doesnโ€™t notice that Johnny hates him.

Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost

Makesย โ€˜unusualโ€™ connections out of nowhere.

Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost

Very good at understanding animals since childhood (some autistic people are).

Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost
Diego Brando Is Autistic: A Masterpost

Part of his Stand is just abnormally strong senses. This boy is autistic.

ilane06-off
2 years ago

โœจ๐ŸŒญโœจ

โœจ๐ŸŒญโœจ
ilane06-off
2 years ago

No horny we said

Also if we learn in the future that something bad happened to Zzigg I'll ๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก


Tags
ilane06-off
2 years ago

Nice !

Nice !

Also if we learn in the future that something bad happened to Zzigg I'll ๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก

ilane06-off
2 years ago

Ptn ร  cause de vous le franรงais il crรจve c'est inadmissible... voir mรชme inadmetable

Ptn ร  Cause De Vous Le Franรงais Il Crรจve C'est Inadmissible... Voir Mรชme Inadmetable

Also if we learn in the future that something bad happened to Zzigg I'll ๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก

ilane06-off
2 years ago

Arrรชtez de faire les amรฉricains vous parlez tout les deux franรงais bande de cons

Arrรชtez De Faire Les Amรฉricains Vous Parlez Tout Les Deux Franรงais Bande De Cons

Also if we learn in the future that something bad happened to Zzigg I'll ๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก๐Ÿ—ก

ilane06-off
2 years ago

@cocogum this

Unpopular opinion, I hate how Milluki was made for comedy relief, I hate how heโ€™s written and I hate how everyone clowns on him..(not to mention the backhanded fat phobia..)

Heโ€™s from a family of assassins, itโ€™s implied that he creates bombs, AND heโ€™s seemingly the only Zoldyck whoโ€™s tech savvy, he shouldโ€™ve not been swept to the side like he was in hxh

I also might be overreacting just a tad bit, but this is definitely that one trope where the bigger bodied character is treated as a joke and unimportant. As somebody who is big, I hate this archetype so much. In a manga/anime like hxh that has such an interesting list of characters, Milluki should be apart of that, he shouldโ€™ve not have been written the way that he was.

ilane06-off
2 years ago

WHY IS THERE SO MUCH HYPE ON CHROLLO HE'S UGLY AND THE MOST BORING TROUPE MEMBER LOL

ilane06-off
2 years ago

Leorio Paradinight

He wants to be a Doctor.

He could be a good father (almost one for Gon)

He worries for his friends and try to help them.

He is the kind of friend we all wish to had

He is funny

He is tall

He is perfect ๐Ÿ‘Œ

ilane06-off
2 years ago

(Probably) Unpopular JoJo opinion: YukakoXKoichi shouldn't had been a thing.

Look, I like Yukako fine on her own but I don't like that she basically won by getting with Koichi and through some pretty fucked up means when you think about it.

Like, there could have been potential for Yukako to learn that her methods of getting Koichi to like her are messed up and that she doesn't need a boyfriend to be happy.

But no, let's reward the crazy lady who is low-key abusive by letting her date a dude that didn't even like her.

Yukako tortured and even tried to kill Koichi because she couldn't get it through her skull that Koichi didn't like her! She tried to murder a random girl because she thought she was trying to move in on her man! She is not girlfriend material!

Like, there could have been good character development with her realizing that Koichi doesn't like her like that, that her actions were wrong, and needing to work on herself before dating anyone.

Hell, I would have at least like a backstory on why she is the way she is to at least make her sympathetic (like having a bad breakup she never got over or lack of attention at home causing her to have abandonment issues). But again, she is essentially rewarded a boyfriend through a stand love potion (which is a trope with a lot of creepy implications.)

Again, I do like Yukako as a character but I hate how her character was handled, especially since people like Yukako exist and have hurt and killed people and for her to essentially get what she wants just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

And everyone seems to portray their relationship as cute and wholesome but completely forget that their relationship was built on abuse.

Sorry if this was long and ranty but I wanted to get this off my chest. I'll get off my soapbox now.

ilane06-off
2 years ago

Mista: you know, i feel like you always want me to walk in front of you so you can stare at my ass.

Giorno, looking at his ass: why do you say that?

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